Warning of new fines (Vic)

[Pursya]

http://media-newswire.com/release_1063717.html

Ms Kosky said that from today, traffic fines for level crossing offences in the road rules, will increase from $182 and three demerit points to $551 and four demerit points.

If drivers use their fog lights under conditions which are not foggy or hazardous they could face fines of $116


Another revenue raiser for us poor motorists.

[sooty]

I hate that second one...it's bullshit..
The first i can understand...they are putting their lives at risk
but what harm do foggies cause?

[Dee]

they distract other drivers... or something


i drive with mine on so i can be seen and not taken out as easily

[sooty]

“Fog lamps turned on when there is no fog can cause glare, affecting other road users’ ability to see and drive safely,” Mr Pallas said.



Stupid mofo....i've never seen it cause glare, nor been affected...
i HATE revenue raising bollocks...

[USC]

fog lights...what a load of crap...idiots..soon they will tell us not to fart in our car as it might distract other drivers...:mad:

[MatsHolden]

Fair enough about the level crossings. We have about one incident a week at a level crossing somewhere in Victoria.

[bornwild]

fog lights...what a load of crap...idiots..soon they will tell us not to fart in our car as it might distract other drivers...:mad:

I don't get it either...what kind of a dickhead thought "oh jee those little lights really blind me, I better ban them"

Shows how much this western democracy is out of touch with it's demos...

[entice]

if you have the time, check out the definition of Fog vs Driving light

if classified as a driving light, it doesnt fall under that law...

i think it has to do with angle of beam, and wattage.

Fair enough if they refer to the rear one.. those hyundai excells with them left permanently on are a nuisance

[coyotte]

I usually ALWAYS drive with fog lights ON, & will continue to do so !

I guess I am really going to run the gauntlette now as I also have "Blue" low beam parking lights that ironically match the colour "Arden" blue.
I have the original globes in the glove box just incase I ever get pulled over, then will change them on the spot. Have been doing this for 3 yrs now, fingers crossed....
My reasoning for fog lights ON, so drivers travelling in same direction as me see me coming from behind, and don't change lanes at the last minute.

"Dazzling" oncoming drivers, pigs----!
Don't get me started on 4WD's fog lights !

[SIMid]

I'm lost. Front or back Fog Lights? Back yes, can seem like your braking all the time. Front, cant see why. If so, is it a possibility to put in a less wattage so it looks like the low beams are brighter? Just a thought.

[dieselhead]

I usually ALWAYS drive with fog lights ON, & will continue to do so !



Wow, how many foggy days you get there in Melbourne? :)
Don't you get it people? They are called FOG lights for a reason. In most European countries you get fined if you have 'em on when the the air is clear. Use your headlights instead if you have to have something on.

[jerrypufflewell]

I don't get it either...what kind of a dickhead thought "oh jee those little lights really blind me, I better ban them"

Shows how much this western democracy is out of touch with it's demos...

As much as just about every other western democracy is out of touch. More lights = more light = more reflection from other surfaces and glare from your lights = lower visibility for those "dickheads" who don't have their foglights on.
I can forgive most people for driving with their foglights on, because a lot of them don't realise there is a switch. However clearly some of you do and are openly flaunting the rules and denying your effect on other road users, that I cannot forgive. As said above they are FOG lights- for use in fog and other low visibility conditions i.e. smoke, if you need to have them on at any other time you need your eyes tested.

As for driving lights, according to ADRs they can only be switched on with high beam headlights, NOT all the time. This is because driving lights are designed for long-distance vision and therefore can be set at a much higher angle and output.

[bornwild]

As much as just about every other western democracy is out of touch. More lights = more light = more reflection from other surfaces and glare from your lights = lower visibility for those "dickheads" who don't have their foglights on.
I can forgive most people for driving with their foglights on, because a lot of them don't realise there is a switch. However clearly some of you do and are openly flaunting the rules and denying your effect on other road users, that I cannot forgive. As said above they are FOG lights- for use in fog and other low visibility conditions i.e. smoke, if you need to have them on at any other time you need your eyes tested.

As for driving lights, according to ADRs they can only be switched on with high beam headlights, NOT all the time. This is because driving lights are designed for long-distance vision and therefore can be set at a much higher angle and output.

Let's suppose I was driving north and you were driving south. I have my fog-lights on.

Explain to me, with detailed physics(if possible), how my fog-lights will blind you in the slightest of ways? Please...I'm all ears.

ps. I put my foglights on for high-visibility of my car...I don't like having just my low-beams on as it doesn't look good, the foggies add a touch of good-looks too, admittedly. I can say the same about riced up Lancers...they are a distraction to me and cause eye-ache, they should be banned.(this might sound a bit low but you get the gist)

[jerrypufflewell]

Let's suppose I was driving north and you were driving south. I have my fog-lights on.

Explain to me, with detailed physics(if possible), how my fog-lights will blind you in the slightest of ways? Please...I'm all ears.

ps. I put my foglights on for high-visibility of my car...I don't like having just my low-beams on as it doesn't look good, the foggies add a touch of good-looks too, admittedly. I can say the same about riced up Lancers...they are a distraction to me and cause eye-ache, they should be banned.(this might sound a bit low but you get the gist)

I honestly have no problem with you using your foggies during the day, as it's not a distraction then (daylight is quite bright). However at night time they are distracting as:
1 no lighting system is perfect (some light will always go to where it's not meant to go), so if you have both low-beam headlights and foglights on you'll be producing double the volume of misdirected light. Dirt on lenses compounds this problem.
2 You are projecting twice as much light on to the road, with some of that reaching further into other lanes (foglights are generally aimed further out to the side). While this may make your car more visible, it makes the other cars obeying the law less visible, along with cyclists, reflections of road markings etc. This is mainly because the eyes of drivers around you adjust to a higher light level than they would otherwise (as your car is brighter), meaning it is harder for them to notice those other dangers. It also increases the eye stress of adjusting to your car as it is brighter than it should be. This could be seen as dimming the lighting systems of drivers around you relative to your lighting system.

There are a few other ways I could explain it, and if I'm not making any sense let me know... I'm a little distracted at the mo :)

Mind you I don't see why I should be explaining why people shouldn't use their fog lights when it's not foggy, what are the crucially important reasons that people MUST have their foglights on when it's not foggy? It seems to me it's all about looks, and I honestly don't see looks as a good reason to compromise safety or change the law. You may say it's safer for you because your car is more visible, the same sort of reasoning that drives "soccer-moms" to drive SUVs (bigger = safer), but even though this insular reasoning may protect you, it adversely impacts the safety of others.

[poita]

the only foggies that piss me off are those bright yellow ones in silvias!
just wanna smash em with a baseball bat!

[sooty]

if anyone gets "eye-stress" from driving towards someone who has foglights, then it is they who need their eyes checked. serious, the excuse of not being able to see other hazards is rubbish, complete and utter crap.
i will continue to use them when i do, for the reason of increased low down visibility ( has saved me from nailing two cats). if you don't like it, wear sunglasses...

[bornwild]

the only foggies that piss me off are those bright yellow ones in silvias!
just wanna smash em with a baseball bat!

I agree with that....they blind the **** out of me

[MatsHolden]

I get blinded more by the headlights if anything...
But rear foglights I agree, leave them off unless neccessary.

[sooty]

I get blinded more by the headlights if anything...
But rear foglights I agree, leave them off unless neccessary.

Rears have been illegal to use for ages, and it's understandable as they're stupidly bright, and make it permanently look like you're braking.
I just don't see the argument against fronts. Well...i see it...it's just rubbish...

[MatsHolden]

Rears have been illegal to use for ages, and it's understandable as they're stupidly bright, and make it permanently look like you're braking.
I just don't see the argument against fronts. Well...i see it...it's just rubbish...

Has never been enforced though.

On another note...
Day time running lamps are NOT illegal to use. These lamps were included for example on the VZ Monaro. They had a stack of a foglamp and a day time running lamp, as they took into account that most owners used the foglights, so they included the day time running lamps in a bid to keep the driver who wants to have a good look about their car happy as well as any whingers who think properly aimed foglights will blind them.

[dieselhead]

Well, they shouldn't call them fog lights anymore but rather "look a moi" or "boganian" lights :) If your car's looks depend that much on some silly lights that you shouldn't be using in the first place, well, that's sad.
I agree with having headlights on during the day since is helping approaching cars to see you early and appreciate the distances better. This should be made a legal requirement just to avoid seeing idiots driving at night with the lights off :( I always turn them on on low beam when leaving the Metro area. I used the fog lights only once in the last 14 months since I got this Astra, during a very heavy rain when visibility was less than 20m.

Oh, that Monaro is ugly, fog/drive lights on or not. What are those scoops for? Is it a turbo or something? :D

[sooty]

If you want to have headlights on during the day, why not go parkers and foggies instead, the beam is cast lower so it's not going to shine straight in anyone's face instead :)

And we don't all use them for lookes (although they do look good) it genuinely helps with visibility really close to the car, and actually lights up cat-eyes better etc... :D

[dieselhead]

See, that's another thing I don't understand: why drive with the parking lights on?! They are for, you know, when you are... parking, isn't it? Just like the foggies are for fog.

[sooty]

See, that's another thing I don't understand: why drive with the parking lights on?! They are for, you know, when you are... parking, isn't it? Just like the foggies are for fog.

Foggies don't work unless the parkers are on ;)

[coyotte]

Foggies don't work unless the parkers are on ;)

Exactly, and in addition the angle of Astra turbo fogs CAN BE ADJUSTED up & down. Seriously, they are not that bright. Whats all the fuss about.

[USC]

i find foggies very useful! they illuminate the bottom much more when they are on...

[MatsHolden]

All foglights can be adjusted. As long as they are allined correctly there is no problem.

[AF1R]

Sucks for me, bought new xenon globes last week and they look sick. I cant even tell they even on as my foggies point down.

I drive with my front fog lights on every night, my only reason is because it make the car look cool :p

I never use the rear foggies anyways, the only time i switch them on is to annoy tail gaters. The TS SRiT rear foggies are super bright :D

[ROCCO]

Well if fog lights distract drivers...i'm going to stop indicating then...cause i'm sure flashing lights distract them more :-)

[bornwild]

Well if fog lights distract drivers...i'm going to stop indicating then...cause i'm sure flashing lights distract them more :-)

:clap:

Or even turn my lights on at night, they must blind them as hell! I should be more considerate :)

[phtm]

I work with large computer monitors. I find glare to be a problem so I wear triple uv coated sunnies during the day. At night is not the foggies that concern me but poorly adjusted, dangerously bright lights. My wife how ever was born with colabomas in both eyes. Which is another way of saying her iris lets in double the normal light. Most of the time however, I see people with their reversing light and fog lights on during day and night and I wonder why this is necessary.

[jerrypufflewell]

if anyone gets "eye-stress" from driving towards someone who has foglights, then it is they who need their eyes checked. serious, the excuse of not being able to see other hazards is rubbish, complete and utter crap.
i will continue to use them when i do, for the reason of increased low down visibility ( has saved me from nailing two cats). if you don't like it, wear sunglasses...

Oh yeah I'll be able to see everyone else then :p
Clearly you misunderstood me, wearing sunglasses would have the same effect as the pupil adjusting to your brighter light: everything else becomes less visible (i.e. other cars, as they are not producing as much light).
As for the cats, perhaps you should drive slower.

Can anybody give me a decent explanation of why the reasons for not driving with foglights on at night are "complete and utter crap"?

Or if the legislation is so wrong why are you not writing petitions or something, telling someone who can do something about it?

[bornwild]

Can anybody give me a decent explanation of why the reasons for not driving with foglights on at night are "complete and utter crap"??

Because stock foglights don't affect anyone's vision at all...that's bollocks.



Or if the legislation is so wrong why are you not writing petitions or something, telling someone who can do something about it?

Because this isn't a 'democracy' rather a totalitarian government.

[sooty]

Oh yeah I'll be able to see everyone else then :p
Clearly you misunderstood me, wearing sunglasses would have the same effect as the pupil adjusting to your brighter light: everything else becomes less visible (i.e. other cars, as they are not producing as much light).
As for the cats, perhaps you should drive slower.

Drive slower than 40km/h down my street...how about no...:cool:




Can anybody give me a decent explanation of why the reasons for not driving with foglights on at night are "complete and utter crap"?

They shine lower down than normal headlights, the whole idea is they don't shine up to create an opaque haze in front of the car in case of fog. Hence why you run with parkers and foggies. The only ones that may blind you are those that are badly adjusted.



Or if the legislation is so wrong why are you not writing petitions or something, telling someone who can do something about it?

Because we all know that will do nothing...we'd just be labelled as hoons using them solely for the purpose of aesthetics...

[jerrypufflewell]

Drive slower than 40km/h down my street...how about no...:cool:

You must have quite the cat problem. Oh well if people let their cats out at night... For the record I can't recall anyone I know not being able to avoid a cat, and the vast majority of cars that people I know drive don't have foglights.



They shine lower down than normal headlights, the whole idea is they don't shine up to create an opaque haze in front of the car in case of fog. Hence why you run with parkers and foggies. The only ones that may blind you are those that are badly adjusted.

Blind implies permenance, but since you have pushed the point. ADR 50/00 (UNECE 19/02, legal specification for front fog lamps) states clearly that light intensity up to 15 degrees above the horizontal from a fog lamp may be up to a third of the maximium light intensity of the lamp. Yes the main use for front fog lights is to increase forward visibility in bad conditions for the driver of the vehicle with the foglights. However many are also designed to increase the visibility of that vehicle in the same conditions to other road users. Hence not all the light goes horizontally out from the lamp as you imply, but a large component is allowed to be reflected elsewhere.
And so you are still putting more light on the road, making your car brighter than the rest and thus making the rest less noticable (along with pedestrians, cyclists, wildlife and your street's cats who shouldn't be outside at night anyway).


Because we all know that will do nothing...we'd just be labelled as hoons using them solely for the purpose of aesthetics...
So you would rather whinge on a forum and argue with me about it than trying to change it? If it really is so vitally important that you use your fog lights at night when it's not foggy then you should seek a change in legislation. Or is your image so important? Perhaps you are just using them for aesthetics ;)

[sooty]

So you would rather whinge on a forum and argue with me about it than trying to change it? If it really is so vitally important that you use your fog lights at night when it's not foggy then you should seek a change in legislation. Or is your image so important? Perhaps you are just using them for aesthetics ;)

bahaha...i am neither whinging, nor arguing. It's called discussion.
I won't seek a change in legislation. I'll just continue to use them in spite of it.
Just to spite people like you :) doesn't that make you feel important :p

[sooty]

You must have quite the cat problem. Oh well if people let their cats out at night... For the record I can't recall anyone I know not being able to avoid a cat, and the vast majority of cars that people I know drive don't have foglights.

Nice...cos being a smartass achieves a lot..
You have no idea of where i live, nor the cat scenario around it..
The little bastards run out in front of you almost every night whilst they all fight with eachother.
Sure...i should nail them, but can't be bothered cleaning blood off the front bar lol...

[poita]

Pursya, wat have you started mate hahaha

[sooty]

Lol, i'm not gonna post anymore on the topic...it's simply stated that there's a new law lol, whether we agree to it or not...it's in place...
So...we can either abide by it...or, keep using them and run the risk they enforce it...which...i doubt...

[jerrypufflewell]

Lol, i'm not gonna post anymore on the topic...it's simply stated that there's a new law lol, whether we agree to it or not...it's in place...
So...we can either abide by it...or, keep using them and run the risk they enforce it...which...i doubt...

Ahaha we can agree! They won't lol.

[jerrypufflewell]

Nice...cos being a smartass achieves a lot..
You have no idea of where i live, nor the cat scenario around it..
The little bastards run out in front of you almost every night whilst they all fight with eachother.
Sure...i should nail them, but can't be bothered cleaning blood off the front bar lol...

That's right, I don't. Hence why I said you must have a big problem in your street.

[jerrypufflewell]

bahaha...i am neither whinging, nor arguing. It's called discussion.
I won't seek a change in legislation. I'll just continue to use them in spite of it.
Just to spite people like you :) doesn't that make you feel important :p

Not really :(

:D It's alright I'll just continue flashing my driving lights at people like you :p

[sooty]

Ahaha we can agree! They won't lol.

Glad we can agree on something :D

[Wraith]

Agree with D145, Entice, Mat and BW....

What a load of rubbish about the front fog lights 'on normal cars' - definitely another way to make more fines money...they are only ever a problem if somehow they've been angled too high upwards, which is not their normal or proper setting and can always be fixed - I too will continue to use mine !

I say 'normal cars' because I do see how this can be or is a problem with SUV's !!!

The front fog lights on those are much higher up and do indeed cause dazzling especially when they're close up behind you...maybe this is why this whole fog lights debacle started ??

I also think permantly turned on rear fog lights (bright red) like the Hyundai's have, are a problem, I would take to these with a baseball bat LOL...

The traincrossings rule is fair enough - too many uneccessary accidents have happened on these, hopefully tougher fines will decrease accidents from people not taking risks, but I also hope they hurry up and improve the approaches and built in safety measures to all train crossings.

[95' GSI]

Those rules are kinda stupid but they've been past so sadly, you have to live with them.
And I agree with people who find the hyundai rear foggies too bright and obnoxious, not sure if that was the word I was after.
Pull those batards over and fine them instead.
Ok, Im done.

[GreyRex]

What a stupidly hilarious discussion:p :p :p

[bornwild]

The traincrossings rule is fair enough - too many uneccessary accidents have happened on these, hopefully tougher fines will decrease accidents from people not taking risks, but I also hope they hurry up and improve the approaches and built in safety measures to all train crossings.

I didn't think people would need to be fined in order to take care on traincrossings....I mean, don't they appreciate their life? I double check for trains/trams even when it's green, I'm not gonna trust some computer network of lights with my life.

And people who do this, shouldn't be fined...rather encouraged to do more of this. Natural selection at it's best.

[Wraith]

I didn't think people would need to be fined in order to take care on traincrossings....I mean, don't they appreciate their life? I double check for trains/trams even when it's green, I'm not gonna trust some computer network of lights with my life.

And people who do this, shouldn't be fined...rather encouraged to do more of this. Natural selection at it's best.

I see where your coming from BW, even I've been 'caught out' at malfunctioning level crossings and had to 'carefully' go through...if this is the case, I agree a fine shouldn't be handed out as the crossing is at fault...

Unfortunately alot of people don't do this carefully or double check as you put it and they're the ones who end up plastered on the front of a train...I hope that it is this that 'they' are trying to minimise...

[bornwild]

Oh yeah fair enough if the crossing is malfunctioning, I was talking about perfectly operating crossings. :)

But yeah, I mean, it's your life...take care of it. :)

[dieselhead]

I didn't think people would need to be fined in order to take care on traincrossings....I mean, don't they appreciate their life? I double check for trains/trams even when it's green, I'm not gonna trust some computer network of lights with my life.

And people who do this, shouldn't be fined...rather encouraged to do more of this. Natural selection at it's best.

Now, replace "take care on train crossings" with "checking my fog lights are not on if no fog". How hard is it? :)

Driving back from work today at 18:20, already dark as. At some lights, on a main road with 3 lanes each way, perfectly lit with cars bumper to bumper, a champ in a brand new Toyota white good of some sort right behind me, with the foggies on. When the lights turned green, I gave him some fog that rendered his stupid lights absolutely useless, brouhaha ha!

[sooty]

I gave him some fog that rendered his stupid lights absolutely useless, brouhaha ha!

It's funny cos it's oh so true lol :D