HOLDEN has confirmed it will cease manufacturing cars in Australia in 2017...

[Theo]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/holden-will-cease-operations-in-2017/story-fnda1bsz-1226780720596

[kabel]

Yep Sad day for Australia Theo.

You already know my thoughts as I posted them on another forum.

Can I make a comment about maybe Opel cars returning to be sold here as Holden`s ?
HSV Insignia or Astra ?

[Theo]

Yep Sad day for Australia Theo.

You already know my thoughts as I posted them on another forum.

Can I make a comment about maybe Opel cars returning to be sold here as Holden`s ?
HSV Insignia or Astra ?

I have no issue with your thoughts or comments.... spill you guts.

[hazrd]

More information:
http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/gm-to-name-mary-barra-ceo-as-holden-decision-nears/story-fnda1bsz-1226780247370

[faneca]

Not good news and will put a big strain on Toyota now as well as the only car manufacturwe left.

I think it does leave the door open to Opel models to return. Specially the OPC/VXR models as HSVs.

[adam_92]

Its certainly going to put a massive strain on the south Australian job shortage too. Not only the 1000+ employees of holden but also the like of AI automotive, my mate is a manager there and they basically produce and metal car body part fpr several companies in Australia. F9rd and holden were there main contractors. He said they were going to struggle without the ford contract come 2016 and they could just scrape by with the holden contract. Now that will be non existent as well, they will close down, leaving a massive factory and several hundred people out of jobs in woodville. (Directly behind bunnings) they also make all the christmas pageant trailers and carts

[dutchy]

I would assume that GM will be forced to pay most of the costs involved or are they happy for the Australian government - tax payers to foot the bill.

[Theo]

Don't get me wrong I feel for the workers and their families, but least they go into Christmas knowing their future...even if it is bleak.
As for GM deciding this closure, who could really blame them. They need to maintain profits and look after their share holders. I just hope the cars they decide to import have style and performance to suit, like all here I would like to see an Opel sourced vehicles back on our shores with any type of badge i.e. Holden, HSV and not the dogs breakfast namely Barina, Malibu and Epica that where sourced from Korea.

[chris_r]

I don't know about you guys, but something here smells fishy about this whole thing. Sure, it's good that they give the workers nearly 4 years to sort their affairs out, but one must remember that between now and then, Australia will have another election. What does it mean? If Labor roll in on the promise that they can save Holden and the Australian automotive industry, be prepared to see government handouts that will far exceed those being handed out now and then a "Oh look, we saved Holden!". Never mind the fact that under Labor governments that we have seen both Mitsubishi and Ford shut up shop locally.

But in a marketplace that is flooded with 60+ manufacturers, vying for 1 million sales per yer, approx 100,000 going to Holden's locally produced product, I can see why it's no longer viable to manufacture cars here. There would've been a lot of R&D invested in even the VF Commodore and it'll be getting harder to recoup those costs and make a profit. If they really wanted to keep manufacturing locally, the tariff system would have to be re-introduced or a tax incentive/rebate offered on all Australian-built cars that would make locally produced cars more competitive in this small market. But I don't see that happening either.

[hazrd]

More info

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/general-motors-ceo-dan-akerson-told-mike-devereux-to-shut-holden/story-fnda1bsz-1226781043548

[Vectracious]

If Labor roll in on the promise that they can save Holden and the Australian automotive industry, be prepared to see government handouts that will far exceed those being handed out now and then a "Oh look, we saved Holden!".


Hence why I and I dare say a lot of people won't be voting Labour. A lot of people do not agree with the substantial government handouts that have gone to the local manufacturers to subsidise high labour costs. Looks like the free ride has come to an end.

[dutchy]

Hence why I and I dare say a lot of people won't be voting Labour. A lot of people do not agree with the substantial government handouts that have gone to the local manufacturers to subsidise high labour costs. Looks like the free ride has come to an end.

Fully agree with that.

[hazrd]

Yeah that sounds about right. The job losses are very unfortunate don't get me wrong. But spending tax payers money to continually get them out of the shit just because they keep making bad decisions just wasn't right imo

[kabel]

The government props up a lot of industries with grants (handouts).
Car industry happens to only have had three players in this country with the money going direct to those three players where as in some other industries the money is gifted to the end purchaser.
Would the money have been better directed by the government if purchasers were to have directly receive a grant to buy an Australian made car and would of it have helped keep local manufacturing alive ?
All academic now though as Holden have said the decision is irreversible and it has now been reported today that Toyota may announce the end of local manufacturing also.

Lets face it though the government is constantly spending taxpayers money getting people out of the shit.
How many projects have large cost blowouts.
$37 billion blowout for the NBN rollout !

[dutchy]

Here's another nice article with some great explanation. http://catallaxyfiles.com/2013/12/12/gm-holdens-australian-closure/

[Vectracious]

And pretty much all of those failed government schemes have been Labour decisions. Pink bats? NBN blow out? - all Labour.

At the end of the day - Elizabeth, Broadmeadows, Fisherman's Bend and even Altona - are not as efficient as plants in other parts of the world and crippled by union bullshit that means the workers are paid a lot for not much.

Yes, poor so and so who's been in the paint shop the last 30 years and what's he going to do now? Well with all the penalty rates/overtime etc he'll have enough super saved up to retire comfortably. And if not, he's got 4 years to sort himself out. When Telstra announced their 1400 management job losses a couple of months ago, my Dad got 1 months notice of his retrenchment. They're still getting a sweet deal.

[chris_r]

More info

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/general-motors-ceo-dan-akerson-told-mike-devereux-to-shut-holden/story-fnda1bsz-1226781043548

I call BS on this article. Devereux knew long before the announcement. The fact that news of the day just before the announcement was the fact that Holden had failed to lodge a tender to build the PMs limo should've been a sign of things to come.

[JohnBu]

And pretty much all of those failed government schemes have been Labour decisions. Pink bats? NBN blow out? - all Labour.

At the end of the day - Elizabeth, Broadmeadows, Fisherman's Bend and even Altona - are not as efficient as plants in other parts of the world and crippled by union bullshit that means the workers are paid a lot for not much.

Yes, poor so and so who's been in the paint shop the last 30 years and what's he going to do now? Well with all the penalty rates/overtime etc he'll have enough super saved up to retire comfortably. And if not, he's got 4 years to sort himself out. When Telstra announced their 1400 management job losses a couple of months ago, my Dad got 1 months notice of his retrenchment. They're still getting a sweet deal.

Sorry to hear about your dad... If he has been there for a while, he would be on the Defined Benefits Fund Scheme.. which would provide him a very good retirement, with the possibility of a pension for life.

Is he retiring permanently now?

Coincidentally, my dad retired yesterday. He was waiting for a redundancy for over a year, never got one after 3 rounds of redundancies... so he finally voluntarily retired! lol

FYI- Labor Party.

[hazrd]

Here's another nice article with some great explanation. http://catallaxyfiles.com/2013/12/12/gm-holdens-australian-closure/

Thats a very insightful article.

[hazrd]

Oh dear.... Chev owners rejoice :facepalm2:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/business/holden-cars-and-dealerships-could-be-rebadged-as-chevrolet/story-fnkgdhrc-1226781980761



One insider revealed that Holden has been forced to conduct exhaustive research with Australian car buyers to prove the case to Detroit that the Holden brand is worth saving.

"The amount of money we've spent trying to defend the Holden brand to Detroit is ridiculous," he said.

"But when executives from North America come out to Australia, they take photos of Chevrolet badges that people have fitted to their Holden utes, and use that against us."

[dutchy]

They could have taken pics of us with the Opel badges and then decided to leave Opel in place here in Oz.

[poita]

So bogans are the reason behind Holdens demise lol

[hazrd]

So bogans are the reason behind Holdens demise lol

Exactly what i thought :lol:

[chris_r]

Changing the brand to Chevrolet will probably have the same result as Opel trying to replace Vauxhall in the UK, it just never worked. But either way, whatever brand they sell in 2018 will still more than likely be the same badge-engineered Daewoo crap they sell now. And unless they bring "hero" cars like Camaro and Corvette to Australia, any respect that Chevrolet may have now will disappear like a fart in the wind.

But what's interesting is the potential repercussions in other areas, particularly in motorsport and the V8s. I suppose they'd be racing something like the Chevy Impala. And then there's HSV, being a joint venture between Holden and Walkinshaw Performance, which will possibly be left in the lurch with one half of the investment gone. Could it leave the door open for an Opel re-introduction to Australia? Possibly, but I wouldn't hold my breath and then there's the whole trust issue that's burnt a few people already.

[Vectracious]

which would provide him a very good retirement, with the possibility of a pension for life.

FYI- Labor Party.

John the thread is about Holden closing. Using my dad as an example was to show the workers have got a good deal being told 4 years before the fact that they will loose their jobs. What my dad got as a redundancy package is beside the point. But for what it's worth,

no, he does not have a pension for life from telstra and whatever he negotiated with telstra for his retirement had nothing to do with any government or political party.

[kabel]

Changing the brand to Chevrolet will probably have the same result as Opel trying to replace Vauxhall in the UK, it just never worked. But either way, whatever brand they sell in 2018 will still more than likely be the same badge-engineered Daewoo crap they sell now. And unless they bring "hero" cars like Camaro and Corvette to Australia, any respect that Chevrolet may have now will disappear like a fart in the wind.

But what's interesting is the potential repercussions in other areas, particularly in motorsport and the V8s. I suppose they'd be racing something like the Chevy Impala. And then there's HSV, being a joint venture between Holden and Walkinshaw Performance, which will possibly be left in the lurch with one half of the investment gone. Could it leave the door open for an Opel re-introduction to Australia? Possibly, but I wouldn't hold my breath and then there's the whole trust issue that's burnt a few people already.
I agree with you although Ryan Walkinshaw has already said Holden ceasing local manufacture will make no difference to HSV and that they will work with whatever cars the parent company has on offer in the future, he also said he believed the current Commodore to essentially be a world class product (no reason for him not to though, as HSV still have another 4 years of selling them).
You would have to think that not having a burly muscle car would have an impact though given the type of buyer HSV currently attracts, will be a large cultural shift for that business without a US RWD drive car available and even a two door Camaro is not going to appeal to everyone. GM`s "global" product may look different by 2018 anyway.
If Opel`s did re-appear badged as Holden/HSV how many people would really have known Opel were here for a heartbeat in 2013 anyway ?
You are right there will be lots of unanswered questions and speculation between now and 2018.

V8 Supercars may amend the rules to include two door cars also ?

[JohnBu]

Fair enough Pete.

I think a lot of the workers are worried (and rightly so) they won't be able to find an equal job- salary, conditions and union protection.

The workers will be silly to resign rather than wait the 3 years to receive the redundancy package.

The workers know they are on a good wicket. And if they are as highly skilled as the union claims ( commensurate to the salaries they request) they shouldn't have trouble finding new jobs.

Another question now is what will the quality of the cars be like Noe workers know they won't have a job. Morale will be down, some workers are prob thinking why should I put in 100%, I'm not going to have a job anyway.

[hazrd]

V8 Supercars may amend the rules to include two door cars also ?

Highly unlikely. Ford are looking to use a 4 door focus to abide by the COTF rules (tried and tested in Australia already and the test car is racing in endurance races in South Africa currently). So GM should really have no excuse considering all other manufacturers are able to accommodate the rule IMO.



In other news, Holden may still exist, only with the label "Made in China"

http://www.news.com.au/national/the-2017-holden-commodore-will-be-made-in-china/story-fncynjr2-1226783057648

Oh, also, 4cyl and FWD ...

[dutchy]

In other news, Holden may still exist, only with the label "Made in China"

http://www.news.com.au/national/the-2017-holden-commodore-will-be-made-in-china/story-fncynjr2-1226783057648

Oh, also, 4cyl and FWD ...

Didn't Ford also plan to open a factory in China ?

[hazrd]

No idea. The current Focus/Fiesta and the Ranger come from Thailand (Except for the ST models). So, if they opened a factory up there, then I guess it would be purely for the Chinese market??

[kabel]

Highly unlikely. Ford are looking to use a 4 door focus to abide by the COTF rules (tried and tested in Australia already and the test car is racing in endurance races in South Africa currently). So GM should really have no excuse considering all other manufacturers are able to accommodate the rule IMO.



In other news, Holden may still exist, only with the label "Made in China"

http://www.news.com.au/national/the-2017-holden-commodore-will-be-made-in-china/story-fncynjr2-1226783057648

Oh, also, 4cyl and FWD ...

I saw that Racer Industries has some Focus V8`s entered in the Bathurst 14 hour next year.

http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/10/31/focus-v8s-confirmed-b12h-gt-field-expands/

[hazrd]

Yep they're the ones :)

[chris_r]

As far as Holden/Chevrolet are concerned, there's a number of options for the V8 entrants. Cruze and Malibu could be modified in the same way that the Focus is being done, or if they replace the Commodore with a similarly sized import, the Chevrolet Impala could fit the bill, considering that it is highly likely this car was intended to replace the VF on the production line, had Holden decided not to close up shop.

[hazrd]

Cruze makes the most sense, considering they race the "Chevrolet Cruze" already?

[chris_r]

Cruze makes the most sense, considering they race the "Chevrolet Cruze" already?

True, but I'd see it as being the more marketable model of the lot, seeing as the big sedans have long fallen out of favour with the fleets in the last few years, either in favour of smaller cars or larger SUVs.

[hazrd]

Q&A on Holden's Facebook page (you may need to be logged in to view). Note question 6

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152044694579898&set=a.118646569897.97800.5730024897&type=1

[Vectracious]

Q&A on Holden's Facebook page (you may need to be logged in to view). Note question 6

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152044694579898&set=a.118646569897.97800.5730024897&type=1

As long as it gives us the biggest profit margin and competitive pricing. So forget about seeing a rebadged Cadillac CTS or similar as a holden.

[poita]

Did you read the comments? People saying they wouldn't buy an imported Holden, but they own a 2002 Barina rofl

[chris_r]

Well, technically there's no such thing as an imported Holden, as that would imply Holden makes cars overseas. But yeah, some of those comments just show how intelligent your average Holden driver is.

[poita]

An email just received


*

Dear Peter,

As a valued Holden customer I wanted to personally contact you regarding the recent announcement that Holden will cease manufacturing in Australia in 2017. At this time all Holden vehicles will become fully imported.

It has not been an easy time for Holden. I can honestly tell you that we considered every possible option in an effort to retain our Commodore and Cruze manufacturing operations in Australia. But in reality, it just didn’t add up.

As with every test we’ve faced during our 100-plus-year history, we are determined to rise to the challenge and hold our position as the iconic automotive brand in Australia.

So in short, I’m telling you that the Holden brand is here to stay.

For you as a Holden customer nothing changes. Servicing and the availability of parts are all unaffected by this announcement, as are our warranty and roadside assistance programs. Together with our network of over 230 dealers nationwide, we will continue to provide you with exceptional service and support.

Our range of vehicles will be built via world-class platforms that leverage the scale and expertise of GM’s global product team, just as many of our popular models are now. The local Holden Design Centre that has created and influenced so many famous Australian cars will continue to play a major role in the design of Holden vehicles sold in Australia as well as vehicles destined for all corners of the globe.

Our rich history remains in the heart and soul of every Holden produced now and in the future. We’re known for cars that are exciting to drive, at the forefront of technology and that offer great value. All supported by a dealer network that provides excellent service. This is what we do best and this will not change.

We remain focused on securing a bright future for our brand and our customers in Australia.

Holden is here to stay and I thank you for your ongoing support.

If you require further information, please contact your Holden Dealer or Customer Care on 1800 033 349.



Mike Devereux
Chairman and Managing Director

[chris_r]

Talk about marketing BS. The only reason the Holden name will remain, is the same reason the Vauxhall name still exists in the UK. GM Europe tried to replace it with Opel and it backfired, the same could potentially happen for Holden, even if the bogans whack a Chev badge on it. Speaking of which, I don't recall any of these so-called bogans actually ever referring to their cars as Chevrolets, even if they badge it as one. And "Holden is here to stay"? Yeah, that's why you're shafting the faithful by taking the Aussie right out of it.

But having said that, I've seen one or two Cruzes floating around Adelaide dressed as Chevs (with the proper bumpers) and I think they look a lot better than the regular Holden variants.

[kabel]

The same "personal e-mail" that was a media press release to the general public ?
Doesn't he take up a new role overseas for GM in January anyway .

[dutchy]

An email just received

Similar to the Opel letter that was sent.

[poita]

The same "personal e-mail" that was a media press release to the general public ?
Doesn't he take up a new role overseas for GM in January anyway .

Never said it was a personal email

[ra2006]

I don't know about you but I have been thinking back to the Opel announcement back in August this year when they inform us that they were exiting the region.

Now in hindsight things do not seem as they appear. Let’s take a look at the facts. During the time of the announcement the federal election was called, it was pretty much certain then that the Coalition would be heading for a landslide victory. Deveroux pretty much knew that Holden’s games was up if the Abbott/Hockey government was elected and with that that government funding would dry up. In fact Deveroux was pretty much told this during June/July by Hockey.

Now the timing of the Opel announcement strikes me as a little weird. Deveroux knew (or had a bloody good idea) that Detroit were planning the end of Australian Manufacturing operations for the commodore and cruize! Opel announcing that it was exiting earlier after a year is beginning to make a little sense in light of what we know now.

Please don’t get the wrong impression of me. I am not a conspiracy theorist, I don’t live with my mum and sit at my PC all day at home just wearing underpants and a tight fitting t –shirt covering my expansive mounts of tummy flab thick rimmed 70’s glasses and a combover while dear old mum brings me my six meals (excluding snacks) while I am on line.

You know that I have been thinking over the last 2-3 months why Opel never gave it a better go, it just did’nt seem a Opel thing to do. Something about the whole situation did not feel right, everything was so sudden based on the start of the Federal Election campaign when it was certain Labour were off, Michelle Lang (Opel Marketing Manager) didn’t know anything was up until a call from Bill Mott 9pm before the day of the dealer announcement, when she and the dealers thought they were going to be focussing on the launch of the Mokka.

The finest Project Manager I have ever worked with always said to me, ‘when you feel something doesn’t feel right it means someone isn’t presenting you with the full facts’.

Think about it, the Astra name has always been held to high regards to Aussie mid size car buyers, GM knew that they had to break that link from Astra to Opel quickly. I think they are going to bring back rebranded Astra’s.


Am I getting something wrong here? Am I thinking too much into this?

[hazrd]

Mate, I think you're right on the money. I'm not the tight shirt type (cant exactly argue too much about the fat part), but I agree that it makes sense.

If they bring the Astra back as Holden, then good on them. They (Holden) will need to see how they survive without the Commodore before they make any rash decisions though (although i think they have made enough of those lately)

[Vectracious]

Think about it, the Astra name has always been held to high regards to Aussie mid size car buyers, GM knew that they had to break that link from Astra to Opel quickly. I think they are going to bring back rebranded Astra’s.



I can only hope - wouldnt mind a new Holden Astra/Insignia when it comes time to trade up.

[Theo]

I personally see no reason to keep a brand that doesn't manufacture anything keep on going.
Am I wrong here or will it work?

[chris_r]

I personally see no reason to keep a brand that doesn't manufacture anything keep on going.
Am I wrong here or will it work?

Personally, I think Holden are in the process of shooting themselves in the foot. On one hand, it's making use of the legacy they've built over the years. On the other, it's an insult to the general public and to those who have worked for Holden. I think the only reason Holden continuing as a brand only may work in the long term, but the initial impact will send the brand further down the sales list as the Australian public will be seething over the whole debacle that's still continuing to unfold.

I think Holden's continuing argument to survive as a brand is down to what happened in the UK with the attempted rebranding of Vauxhall to Opel. It failed miserably and was subject to a fair amount of market backlash. The situation is different for Holden, mainly as Vauxhall technically still make cars in the UK, whether they're sold as Vauxhall, Opel or even Renault (the Trafic van is made at the Luton plant).

[Theo]

Not sure of the year, but back in the day Holden closed a factory in NSW. The backlash was tremendous, no-one bought a Holden in that region for years, the went straight to the competition - Ford. This obviously has a flow on effect as generation's grew up they usually bought what their family members owned. Just hopefully Holden learnt something from that.